True the Vote Interview With Charlie Kirk Part 2: 'A Ballot Laundering Cartel' During 2020 Election

True the Vote Interview With Charlie Kirk Part 2: 'A Ballot Laundering Cartel' During 2020 Election

This is a continuation of an interview Turning Point USA founder and executive director held with ballot integrity group True the Vote’s Catherine Engelbrecht and Gregg Philips this week to discuss the organization’s an extremely high-tech probe into an “organized crime” ballot trafficking operation they say most definitely helped swing the 2020 election away from now-former President Donald Trump. 

Part 1 is here.

The ballot trafficking fraud begins with dirty voter rolls, explained Englebrecht, with fraudsters feeding off of inflated voter lists that are packed with invalid registrations.

For example, in Georgia, the illegal Stacey Abrams-Mark Elias “consent decree pushed [GOP Secretary of State Brad] Raffensperger to send ballots to both active and inactive voters. The rolls hadn’t been cleaned in two years. We now know that ineligible voter records contributed to 75,000 of the votes in the General and 45,000 votes in the run-off” in the Peach State, said Englebrecht.

“The way that the ballots were collected becomes this multi-tentacled hydra… There’s all manner of ways that those ballots came in but the important takeaway is that dirty voter rolls allow for a big portion of this grift,” she emphasized.

“Who’s running this?” asked Kirk.

“Our current hypothesis,” said Philips, “is that there are new money folks, like the Stacey Abrams of the world, who all of a sudden show up in Maricopa Country after the election, arm in arm with the SEIU [union officials] and others, [where they thank] her for delivering the state… The second piece of this is there are old money ties… to some foundations that started in Chicago back some 80 years ago, in the 1960s.”

“So you’re saying that there’s a foundation, a 501(c)(3) that was potentially funding some of this activity?” Kirk pressed.

“Yes. Many,” they responded.

Kirk then asked if there was a “typical” ballot “mule” involved in the operations, to which Philips said it differs from county to county.

“We had some incidents at this place in Atlanta called the Bluff, one of the heaviest heroin trafficking places in the U.S., very dangerous, one of the top five most dangerous places in the U.S. We interviewed some people down there… That same night, we also went to 201 Washington Street, which is an advocacy center attached to a church… in downtown Atlanta,” he explained.

But “in Arizona, the profile looked a little different,” Englebrecht noted. “It’s been happening in Arizona for an awfully long time. What we see there are people who really control communities. And you have people at the top of the pyramid coming in and doing everything from building underprivileged housing to controlling the full vertical of the contractors, and the banks, and the financing organizations, and all of those people are participating in rounding up ballots.”

As the upcoming “2,000 Mules” movie will soon show, “we have informants who have come forward to describe exactly what happens,” said Englebrecht.

“And these collectors and these mules are making between $10 and $40 a ballot here in Arizona, according to the testimony we have,” noted Philips.

In Yuma County, Ariz., at least, Kirk said the cartel’s days may be numbered.

“There were two ballot harvesting arrests in Yuma. I’m hearing from the grapevine that there might be more happening there,” he said.

“We think so too,” Philips agreed. “We believe there will be more [arrests in Yuma]. One of the interesting things about Yuma County, and San Luis in particular, is some of that old money that we talked about earlier… flows into some of these poor border communities.”

There, it’s “less about electing a president with these harvesting techniques and more about electing themselves so they can stay in control over all the billions that are flowing in,” he said.  “We think that here in Arizona your AG and others are tuned in enough to what’s going on down there that you’re going to see some action.”

The solution to this massive vote fraud operation has “four pillars,” said Philips:

1. Clean the voter rolls. True the Vote has set up a website that helps citizens review their voter rolls and challenge inaccurate records;

2. Stop mass mail-in voting and abolish the drop boxes;

3. Eliminate private funding of elections;

4. Impose punishments that fit the crimes.

“Put some people in jail,” Philips insisted. “If you put somebody in jail for 10 years for this, you’ll stop it.”

The country may soon begin to see investigations that lead to arrests stemming from audits related to “Zuckerbucks” — a reference to Facebook founder/billionaire Mark Zuckerberg, who spent some $400 million of his own money on private ‘get out the vote’ initiatives, nearly all of which went to Democrats.

“You’re going to start seeing more and more of what’s happening in Jackson, Mississippi,” Philips said. “There’s a state auditor in Jackson, his name is Chad White. And he went out and audited some of these officials who were doling out this Zuckerberg money, and there’s been four arrests already in Jackson for stealing the money. I think you’re going to see state auditors, and others all over the country, now start to say, ‘Where did all of this money go?’”

“Zuckerberg money was a huge catalyst,” he continued. “You take dirty voter rolls, you mail everyone an application whether they ask for it or not, whether they’re even legitimately on the rolls or not, and then you provide a means to stuff them in there.”

But “don’t feel helpless,” Englebrecht said. “We are not victims because victims don’t have a choice. We have a choice, this is happening on our watch. So we can choose to remain complicit and to watch this and watch the [2,000 Mules] movie and go pop a bag of popcorn and sit back and say, ‘Wow this is just horrible,’ and the band plays on. Or we can say, ‘Not on our watch,’ and get involved.”

“We are an exceptional nation that can pull this together and pull it together quickly. We just have to make it a priority… We’ve taken voting for granted, we’ve taken the process for granted, and that has to come to an end… Now is the time to wake up and demand standards locally, and then it will all roll uphill,” she concluded.

Catherine and Gregg plan to release their entire two petabyte data arsenal after the 2,000 Mules premier, which is now scheduled for the first week of May. They’ve also recently located video footage from the 14 cameras inside the Gwinnett County, Georgia counting facilities. “Our intention after the video runs, we’re going to pull the ripcord, we’re going to release all of this.”

Founded in 2009, True the Vote has battled IRS attacks under Obama, lawsuits from Mark Elias and Stacey Abrams, and most recently sabotage from Georgia GOP Gov. Brian Kemp, who is being challenged in the Republican primary this year by Trump-backed former U.S. Sen. David Perdue.

“[Kemp] led a fight alright – against us,” Englebrecht explained.

“I personally briefed Kemp’s team,” added Philips. “They not only refused [to investigate]… they sent one of their henchmen, the guy that runs the GBI, down to the FBI office where our data lived — not to see the data, but to get into the metadata and figure out who the analysts were and then burn me and a couple of my analysts.”

“Releasing it all to the press… They did everything they could to stop us,” added Englebrecht.

Despite the setbacks and attacks, True the Vote has never given up and has now amassed, arguably, the most comprehensive and incontrovertible evidence of an organized election subversion conspiracy to date. Please consider supporting these warriors and American heroes at


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